Reading Response #6 (after reading chs 20 & 21)
Please answer all of the following questions.
1) In chapter 17, Holden tells Sally that he loves her: "I told her I loved her and all. It was a lie, of course, but the thing is, I
meant it when I said it. I'm crazy. I swear to God I am."
How can you mean something that's actually a lie? Respond in at least three sentences.
2) Holden talks a good deal about dying. In chapter 20, he becomes worried about dying of pneumonia. In imagining his death,
who is worried/concerned about? (hint: it's not himself.) Provide quotes (w/ pg #s) to support your answer.
3) When Holden enters his family's apartment (in chapter 21), it's very dark and he can't see a thing, yet he knows he's home.
a) How does he know that?
b) How do you know you're home? In a paragraph, describe what the smells, sounds, sights, and/or feelings are that let you
know that you're home. Respond in at least three sentences.
* If you have time, work on your scrapbook.
1) In chapter 17, Holden tells Sally that he loves her: "I told her I loved her and all. It was a lie, of course, but the thing is, I
meant it when I said it. I'm crazy. I swear to God I am."
How can you mean something that's actually a lie? Respond in at least three sentences.
2) Holden talks a good deal about dying. In chapter 20, he becomes worried about dying of pneumonia. In imagining his death,
who is worried/concerned about? (hint: it's not himself.) Provide quotes (w/ pg #s) to support your answer.
3) When Holden enters his family's apartment (in chapter 21), it's very dark and he can't see a thing, yet he knows he's home.
a) How does he know that?
b) How do you know you're home? In a paragraph, describe what the smells, sounds, sights, and/or feelings are that let you
know that you're home. Respond in at least three sentences.
* If you have time, work on your scrapbook.
posted by Mary at 10:40 AM
23 Comments:
1. Sometimes when some one tells another person that they are beautiful, like a guy telling a girl he loves her. The guy probably means that he really lovers her when he says it but he probably told her that he loved her because he wanted something from her. Then later he regrets telling he loved her because he didn’t get what he wanted.
2. When Holden imagines himself dying of pneumonia he begins worrying about his mother, “Especially my mother, because she still isn’t over my brother Allie yet.”(p.155) Also, he was worried about his sister Phoebe “I knew she wouldn’t let old Phoebe come to my goddam funeral because she was only a little kid.”(155)
3. Holden enters his family’s apartment and knows that he’s at home because the foyer has a funny smell that’s unique to his home. Holden walked around his brother’s room looking at all the stuff and felt swell for a change. He also woke his sister up to say hello and he felt happy when she hugged him around the neck.
4. When I entire home I see my cat Toby at the door and he is always meows when he meets me. In my room I see my other cat Venus sleeping on my bed. Everyday I listen to my music when I arrive at home.
1) Holden may have meant it at the time, just because she was the only one he could talk to then. He had figured out later that this was not the case and he changed his mind. holden was a very moody guy and at the time he just felt really affectionatte.
2) When Holden worries about dying, it isn't because he doesn't want his mom to be worried, it is because he does not want to leave Pheobe. He also would have had a life where he couldn't experience childhood. Also, he was probably not even worried about himself dying. He was recalling Allie's death and replacing their names.
3) Holden knows he is home because of the thinck smell that the fireplace produces.
b) I know im home because of its empty and spacious feeling. My house can give you shivers. You see the the car lights passing by. My house even feels haunted a lot just because of the space when it's dark out.
1)There are ways of meaning a lie. One way is for it to be partially true and paritally false. The other way is to think one thing at one time and change it later on.
2)He would have felt sorry for his mother and father."I felt sorry as hell for my mother and father.Especially my mother because she still isn't over my brother allie yet." -page 155.
3) He could tell he was in his house because it had a unique smell in his house. I always know I'm home because of my cat and my brother. My brother makes alot of noise and my cat is always waiting outside the door.
1) I think that a way that you can mean something that is actually a lie is this. When you say something and you mean it at the time, and then you look back on it and think about if you really meant it for longer than a few minutes. I think that Holden loved Jane for a few minutes because he was with her, but later when he was thinking about what he said, he wasn't really meaning it.
2) When Holden is talking about dying, he is worried/concerned about Allie and Phoebe. He is worried about Allie in the cemetry. Holden is worried about people throwing flowers on Allie's stomach, and the rain on the tombstone. He doesn't like the idea of him being with other dead people in the cemetry, and Holden wants to be thrown in a river and not buried. Holden is also a little bit worried about Phoebe and how she will not be allowed to go to Holden's funerel. Holden's parents won't let her go to the funerel because she is a little kid and the death of her brother would be hard for her.
3) a. Holden knows that he is home because of the smell of the foyer. He knows it because no other place smells like it.
b. I know I am home because of a lot of things. The first way I can know I am home is the smell of the garage. The garage smells like everything. It smells like a garage but when I go into other people's garages, they smell like gas. My garage is different. It smells like everything!!! Another way I can tell I am home is the smell of my room. It smells like my wooden furniture because they give off smell. I know I am home by the tree on the corner of my street and the street on the caty corner. It changes different colors in the different seasons.
You can mean something that's a lie if you believe at the time that it's true. Holden wanted her to believe that he loved her so when he told her that he meant it. Not because it was true but because it was convienient.
Holdden is worried that his mom would care if he died, because she hasn't quite gotten over Allie's death and the death of another son might push her over the edge. Holden is also worried about Phoebe because "she is rather fond of me".
Holden knows that he is home because the foyer smells like a wierd mix of cauliflour and perfume or something else that's strasnge.
There is not really any way for me to tell that I am home. I just moved and I don't quite feel as comfortable in the house as I did in my old house. I'm just not sure it feels like home yet. The one thing that comes close to me knowing that I'm home is that the door always sticks. Whether I'm going in or out. It's impossible to open and just as impossible to close.
1) I think he was i such a high spirit for the moment, so when he said it he "meant" it, but then he realized that he said something stupid.
2)He's afraid that his mother wouldn't take another knock if Holden would die.
"Especially my mother, becasue she still isn't over my brother Allie yet." (p.201,s#9)
3)
a)Becasue their foyer "has a funny smell"
b)It's usuall that you hear music when yu step into our foyer, because we always have our radio on when we're not at home. We had a parrot for a couple of months back in Sweden, and he always needed to hear something, so we had our radio on all the time. It've become by force of a habit.
Sometimes, when you lie, your subconscious comes out and when you say want you are truly thinking. Holden sometimes lies to make people happy( he told Sally he loved her too)but sometimes he slips and says something that's from the heart, so that he displays his true feelings. Holden wanted Jane to think he loved her so he instinctively lied, but in truth, he actually did love her.
Holden is actually worried about his Mom and Dad instead of himself. "I kept picturing her not knowing what to do with all my suits and athletic equipment and all" (Catcher in the Rye, p. 201). Also, Holden worries Phoebe would get scared if she came to his funeral, and delights in knowing his mother wouldn't let her come. "The only good thing, I I knew she wouldn't let Old Phoebe come to my funeral because she was only a little kid" (Catcher in the Rye p. 201).
Holden knows because his hallway has a unique smell that isn't apparent any other place. I know I'm home when the wood floors bend and creak to let you walk by, or the smoothness of the island in the middle of our kitchen. I'm home when I see the gleam of our glass cabinets, or the two Thai heads leading you up the stairs that when you finally reach the top they look like they are bickering. Or the smell of boiling peanut brittle that is almost burnt but then simmers down when Mom adds more sugar.
1) In chapter seventeen Holden mention that he had told Jane that he loved her. He claims that it was a lie, but he meant it when he said it. I think that Holden meant that he really loved her when he said it but now when he thinks about it now he doesn't love her that much anymore. For example when you say that you love a certain noise or something and you mean it when you say it. And you really love the noise. But, when you hear the noise later you don’t love it. So, I think that Holden meant that he loved Jane then, but now he could never tell her that because he doesn't.
2) In chapter 20, Holden becomes worried about dying of pneumonia. He starts to imagine his funeral. In imagining his funeral he thinks about his family. He thinks of how his grandfather, aunts, and cousins would come to his funeral. He thinks of how his mother would not allow Phoebe to come because she was just a little kid. He claims that would be a good thing. He thinks of how his mom would not know what to do with all his suits and sports equipment. He feels bad for his mom because she is not over Allies death yet. He also, thinks of how he missed Allie's funeral because he was in the hospital for his hand because of breaking all the windows in the garage because of Allie's death. Holden says, "I started picturing millions of jerks coming to my funeral and all. My grandfather from Detroit . . . my aunts-I have about fifty aunts - and my lousy cousins . . . I felt sorry as hell for my mother and father. Especially my mother, because she still isn't over my brother Allie yet. I kept picturing my mother not knowing what to do with all my suits and athletic equipment and all. The only good thing, I knew she wouldn't let old Phoebe come to my goddam funeral because she was only a little kid. That was the only good part"(pg. 200-201).
3) In chapter 21, when Holden enters his family's apartment it's very dark and he can't see a thing, yet he knows he's home. He knows that he is home because he knows the smell of his home. He said that his foyer had a funny smell that did not smell like anyplace else.
I know that I am home when I see the tallest mirror by the door. It is like 10 feet tall, literally and you can see your reflection and the glare of it. My house also has stairs that are really wide when you come in so I know that I am home.
In chapter 17 Holden told jane he loved her. After saying this, he says that he lied but actually ment it. By this he means that when he said this he was lieing but now that he thinks about it it kind of makes sense to him and he kind of means that he loves her.
In chapter 20 when Holden is worried that he has caught pneumonia instead of being concerned for himself he is concerned for his parents. He says "I felt sorry as hell for my mother and father. Especially my mother, because she still isn't over my brother Allie yet.(p. 155).
When Holden enters his family's apartment, it's very dark and can't see a thing, yet he knows he's home. He knows this is because the foyer has a funny smell and "doesn't smell like anyplace else".
Even if it were pitch black in my house i would still know that i was home for two main reasons. One way is that there is always a nice smell and it is always freezing cold because me and my family are always warm and can't stand not feeling cool. The second way i know that I'm home is because when i walk in and walk around i will never walk on anything or step on anything other then the carpet and the floor. This is because my family and I are all neat freaks and couuldn't live with anything being on the ground.
1) At the time he felt like he loved her. It was a spur of the moment type of thing. Later on, he realized this wasn't true, making it a lie that he really meant.
2) He is concerned about Allie. He doesn't like the fact that Allie lies in a graveyard surrounded by dead people, and that if it rains, then everyone else can run to their car or under a tree, but Allie just has to lie there, with it raining on his belly. This idea comes from the following quote: "It was awful. It rained on his lousy tombstone, and it rained on the grass on his stomach. It rained all over the place. All the visitors that were visiting the cemetary started running like hell over to their cars. That's what nearly drove me crazy. All the visitors could get in their cars and turn on their radios and all and then go someplace nice for dinner. Everybody except Allie. I couldn't stand it." (pg. 155-156).
3)a. He knows he's home because their foyer has a funny smell that noplace else has.
b. I know I'm home (from a long trip) when I walk in the door and I can hear our cat as he yells at us for leaving. I know I'm home when I can smell the lemon pledge and cleaning oils our house cleaner uses, still pungent since the counter or the cabinet or the table hasn't been used. I know I'm home when I see everything just as it was when we left. I know I'm home when I feel relieved and happy just to be back.
An example of meaning something that isnt true is when you tell your best friend that you love them which is Holdens case. You know you dont acctually love the person but you do in a way. Like you would help them out if they were down and things like that.
The person that is worried about Holden dying when he imagines it is Pheobe. "She would feel pretty bad if something like that happened. She likes me a lot. I mean shes quite fond of me. She really is." Page 156
Holden knows it is his apartment when he walks in because of the smell. It is a smell no other place had. One way i would know it is my home is my dog. He is always on the stairs and he greats you at the door. Another way i would know is the heater right next to my door. Me and my family put all of our keys and mail and stuff on it.
Holden actually says that to Sally in the cab (p.163). You can say you really want to go to something, like a movie with your parents, and mean it when you say it, and when the time comes, you don't want to go at all. Changing your mind is not a lie. Thinking that you feel good about something and saying so is not a lie, but thinking that you're always going to feel good about something can be a lie if you know that you aren't going to feel the same way tomorrow or even in five minutes.
Holden sits there worrying about "millions of jerks coming to my funeral." (p. 162) He worries first about his parents, especially his "mother, because she isn't over my brother Allie yet." (p. 201) Then he starts thinking about how Phoebe would feel. "She'd feel pretty bad if something like that happened." (p. 202) So he decides to go home and see her.
In Chapter 21, Holden knows he's home because the foyer smells a certain way, not like perfume and not like cauliflower. It's just a funny familiar smell.
I know I'm home when I hear the dogs barking. Then, I see my mom sitting on the couch doing work on her laptop or reading a book. I also know im home when I see the flowers on the table.
When Holden says he loves her but it was a lie that he meant in the moment it means he did love her. Although he only loved her for a second he did love her. It shows that he can be an honest person at times. Holden thinks about how his little sister Phoebe would react if he died from pneumonia which makes him want to go home and visit her (page 201). Holden knows he is home because of the smell of his home, he says it is different then any other smell and that when he smells it he knows he is home.
I know I am home when I see my dog running around. When I smell dinner cooking when I get home also makes me know I am home. When I see my family at my house I know I’m home.
1. The Random House 2006 Dictionary defines a lie as “a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive. With that in mind, I don’t see how one can mean something and lie at the same time. To mean something I am assuming is to believe something to be true. So therefore, believing a statement to be true while that statement is also false and is used to deceive is mutually exclusive.
2. When Holden worries that he is near death, he does not worry about himself. He worries about his family. He is worried about his mother because she didn’t fully get over Allie’s death. “Especially my mother, because she still isn’t over my brother Allie yet.” (p. 201). He is also worried about Phoebe. “The only thing, I knew she wouldn’t let Phoebe come to my goddamn funeral because she was only a little kid.” (p. 201).
3. Holden can tell that he is home because he smells his foyer. I can tell that I am home because of the smell of my dog wafting from my living room. I can tell I am home by feeling my carpeting as I walk. I can tell that I’m home because I hear my refrigerator humming.
Sometimes when you’re in the moment you can like something when under normal circumstances you would not. This happens with Holden when they get out of the taxi. He felt happy and it was like the world was completely different when he stepped out, it changed his views of sally for just that moment.
Holden is concerned about his mom if he dies because she still has not gotten over allies death. “I felt sorry as hell for my mother and father. Especially my mother because she still isn’t over my brother Allie yet.”
There is a funny smell in Holden’s home.
I know that I am home by the sight of my dog jumping at the door. I can feel the steep hill as I walk toward the steps of my front door. When I’m away and first come back and take my first step I am almost guaranteed of the welcome from cotton fluff on the floor from my dog.
you can say somthing you dont mean when you feel like saying it, you know the settings right and all, but you dont mean it, you just kinda think about how great it would be, with the setting and the person and all, so you say it...but you know that your lying
He's worried about his family, mostly his mother, she cant take 2 deaths in a row
he knows he's home because of the smell, and the sounds
I know I'm home becuase everythings there, my room is...me, I made it, designed it, bought it...its just my place. I know I'm home because I my mind feels at rest, I'm at the place that makes me feel most comfortable. The real reason anyone knows there home is because of the sweat, the memories and the fact that their mind designed this room to accomadate the person, that everything is personalized, thats how I, and all beings know their home.
When Holden tells Jane that he loves her, he really meant it at the time, but didn't mean it in the long run. The reason he sayed it was probably that he was just so lonely, and he had no one to talk to. He probably just meant it for a split second, and really did love her for that split second.
When Holden is walking around in the park, he is very cold. He was wondering what would happen to him if he died of pneumonia."I started picturing millions of jerks coming to my funeral.My grandfather from Detroit,that keeps calling out the numbers of the streets when you ride on a goddamn bus with him..."(pg.154-155) Holden seems to care more about how even his death would go wrong. Holden believes that someone would just have enough "sense to just throw him into a river"(pg.155)
Holden enters his house and now it is hoome because his foyer had a funny smell that didnt smell like anywhere else. I know im home because of the same reason. My house hasa different smell from all the other houses, even though i can't identify it. It seems like everyones house smells different.
1) Sometimes people don't think about it hard enough. Later on they change their mind of what they said.
2) "I felt sorry as hell for my mother and father. Especially my mother, because she still isn't over my brother Allie yet. I kept picturing her not knowing what to do with my suits and athletic equipment and all. This was on page 201.
3a) Holden's foyer has a funny smell in it that is quit unusuall.
3b) I hear my mom or dad walking around. Most of the lights are on. You can smell food from the kitchen.
1. When Holden said this, I believe that he was saying that even though he loveds her, he didn't want to admit it to himself. or, perhaps, he didn't want to admit that he could give himself to someone. It is also a possibility that he didn't want to seem phony, which he cares about.
2. I think Holden is worried about himself. He, like the fish, have no real home to which he is welcome, and he is running out of ways to survive, i.e money and shelter. Holden thinks that life is moving to fast for him, and that he can't keep up, and that might cause him to die. For instance, Holden talks a lot about the museum. On page 110, Salinger writes, "The best thing, though, in that museum was that everything always stayed right where it was. Nobody’d move. . . . Nobody’d be different." This shows that Holden can't keep up with the world, and he is sort of giving up on life, and this is why he starts thinking about death.
3. Holden knows hes home because since Allie's death, things around his house, have not been happy or nice. They have been dark, both figurativley and physically, and many of his family members, especially his mother, have been very depressed since the death of Allie. Holden also knows hes home because he goes up into the elevator and sees his apartment.
In my house, there is always a smell of homemade food, especially chicken and soup. In addition, there are also either the scent and sound of either the air conditioning or the heat. There is also always many windows with light shining through. The feelings in my house is welcoming and very laid-back.
You can mean something that's actually a lie when you want to please someone, like Holden does with Jane. You could be thinking one thing about them, then say the opposite, but put your emotion from what you were thinking into what you were saying. Holden might have been thinking one thing about Jane, but saying another with the feeling from what he was thinking. When Holden thinks of dying from pneumonia, he thinks about his funeral, and all of the people who will be there. "I started picturing millions of jerks coming to my funeral and all. - What a mob'd be there. They all came when Allie died, the whole goddamn stupid bunch of them." (Catcher In the Rye, by J.D. Salinger, page 154-155)He talks about people worrying about him, and how distressed his mother will be after another death in the family. "I felt sorry as hell for my mother and father. Especially my mother, because she still isn't over my brother Allie yet." (Catcher In the Rye, by J.D. Salinger, page 155) Later, Holden goes home to his family's apartment to visit Pheobe, where it's very dark. He knows that he's home though, because of the very distinct smell that "-doesn't smell like anyplace else." (Catcher In the Rye, by J.D. Salinger, page 158) Holden can't exactly place the scent, but says that it is unique enough to tell it apart from other places. I have a similar relationship with the smell of my home. If it was pitch black at my house, I would still know where I was because of the smell of candles that have just been burned, and the rocky feeling of the stone pattern of the threshold at the front door. There is also the sound of my refrigerator running, makeing ice for the ice machine.
Holden says that he loves Sally and even though he doesn’t, he meant it when he said it. Like a sudden craving, it applies only for that moment. Holden basically loved her in the taxi before he remembered how annoying she is.
When Holden talks about dying he worries about his mom and his sister. He worries that his mom would not be able to handle another death because she never got over Allie's. With Phoebe he expresses the want for her not to see him at the funeral, she was too young for that.
Holden knows he is home because his foyer has a distinct smell. I know I am home when I look at it because my house has a face. Windows for eyes, a light for the nose and the garage door as a mouth. Also if I make enough noise when I come home I see a black nose pressed against one of the windows, which is something special about my dog so I always know it's him.
Holdens lies but really meant it at the time because at the second he said it he meant it. As soon as he was finished with saying he loved her he now longer felt that way toward Sally. As he looks back on that he knows in the long run it was a lie.
In chapter 20 Holden worrys about dying particulary of pneumonia. Phoebe is who Holden is targeting as being sad when he dies. "She'd (Phoebe) would feel pretty bad if something like that happened. She likes me a lot." (Pg. 156)
Holden knows that it is home because his foyer has a certain smell to it that helps him identify it.
There are many reasons why I feel at home. I also have a certain feeling unlike anyone elses when I walk into my house. Also my house has a certain smell to it that helps me identify it.
You can mea somehting that is actually a lie. You can be thinking unclearly when you say it. Another reason you may be lying is that you are lying to yourself and the person. He thought he wanted to go away with her but he was lying to himself.
He is worried aboutPhoebe. "I owndered how old phoebe would feel if I got pneumonia and died." (p 156)
Everybody knows how their house smells and feels.
I know I'm home because when you are home you aer relaxed, and feel at home.
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