Reading Response #3
In chapters 5 and 6, Holden continues to tell us about his life and his experiences, and we continue to get to know him. What important information does Holden give us in these two chapters?
1) Choose one thing from chapter 5 or 6 (a moment in the story, a piece of information, or a quote) that you feel is important to our understanding of Holden and to his character.
2) In paragraph, explain what this "one thing" tells us about Holden AND explain WHY it's important to our understanding of Holden and to his character. Your entry should be at least one paragraph (5 sentences).
1) Choose one thing from chapter 5 or 6 (a moment in the story, a piece of information, or a quote) that you feel is important to our understanding of Holden and to his character.
2) In paragraph, explain what this "one thing" tells us about Holden AND explain WHY it's important to our understanding of Holden and to his character. Your entry should be at least one paragraph (5 sentences).
posted by Mary at 12:50 PM
36 Comments:
There is one quote that in Chapter 6 that I think reveals quite a bit about Holden’s character. “I was so damn worried, that’s why. When I really worry about something, I don’t just fool around.” (p. 52). He is worried about Jane, and what Stradlater may do to him. This shows that he is concerned about someone else, instead of being seemingly apathetic towards the welfare of other people. It explains the concern he has for the few people he likes. He is trying to hold onto the connections he has. It also helps show his distrust for Stradlater. He is worried about what Stradlater could do to Jane, knowing Sradlater’s reputation. These two things
In these chapters, Holden tells us about his relationship with his brother, before he had died. He explains how he feels toward Stradlater after he comes back from his date with Jane.
I think that when Stradlater says, “No wonder you’re flunking the hell out of here.” and also when he says, “You don’t do one damn thing the way you’re supposed to.” it makes you think of why Pencey Prep isn’t the school for Holden. At the school he is at it seems he is expected to do just as he is told. Holden has other ways of thinking then just as the school says. It shows that he is creative and that he doesn’t like to follow the guidelines.
1.I must choose the same thing as Megan.
“You don’t do one damn thing the way you’re supposed to.”
2.I choosed that thing beacuse that comment is clear like as a bell. That must be the reason that he becomes expelled. He dosent care about rules. The sentence describe him like a person.
In chapter 5, Holden tells the reader about his relationship with his brother Allie before he died of leukemia. It sounds like they were very close, and I think that Holden feels like he can relate to his brother. I think that Holden had a good idea about the composition from his brother’s baseball glove.
I think that one quote that shows Holden’s character is when Stradlater and Holden are talking after Stradlater’s date with Jane. “No wonder you’re flunking out of here, you don’t do one damn thing the way you’re supposed to, I mean it, not one damn thing”. This describes how Stradlater reacts to Holden doing his composition for him. Even though Stradlater asks Holden to do it for him, and he doesn’t really give Holden any rules, Stradlater gets mad that it is not perfect. It was an interesting idea of Holden’s and I think it was a good one.
In chapters 5 & 6 we get to see Holden’s softer side and his bolder side. We get to see Holden’s softer side when he talks about his brother, Allie, that passed away. We get to see Holden’s bolder side when Stradlater gets home form his date with Jane. In chapter 5 Holden talks about his brother Allie. He talks about, or even brags about how intelligent and nice his brother was. Holden says “You’d have liked him. He was two years younger than me, but he was about fifty times as intelligent. He was terrifically intelligent.”(page 49) I think that Holden still feels for his brother deeply and misses him in a way. I think this because the book shows that Holden still held on to the glove that his brother wore. This shows that Holden does not only dislike everything and that he does in fact have a softer side. In chapter 6, Stradlater criticized the paper that Holden wrote for him. But the truth is, Holden didn’t have to write the paper at all, but he chose to out of will power. Stardlater also taunted and teased Holden about Jane. But, what actually showed Holden’s bolder side was when he decided to punch Stradlater across his head. Holden says “I was going to sock him with all my might.......”(page 56) “Only I missed. I didn’t connect. All I did was sort of get him on the side of the head or something.”(page 56) I don’t think that Holden would have normally have hit Stradlater across the head because he was teasing him. But, this time this proves that Holden does have a bolder side and that he sometimes does things out of his box. But at the end of the day Holden is always back to being Holden. The person who does not care about what he does. I think this because of the same reason he punches Stradlater and because once the fight is over he goes to his little red friend. His hunting hat.
Holden is a very hasty and independant person. When he wants to do something, he does( or says it) without thinking. For instance, when Holden kept asking about Stradlater's date with Jane and then started yelling and trying to punch Stradlater. Who would impulsively do that to someone with just a few words exchanged? Holden pushed to far. He kept asking and asking, swearing and yelling until finally Stradlater finished the scuffle. He socked Holden in the nose squarely. This tells us that Holden goes too far and aggravates people to their wits' ends. All Holden ever talks about is how Ackley can't take a hint, but really Holden couldn't either. When Stradlater keeps getting madder and madder at each of Holden's screams that should tell holden to stop. Holden lets his feelings for himself come before his thoughts of other people, and usuallly this happens if you're like Holden.
I agree with Alice. Holdens brothers death may be the most important piece of information about Holdens pat so far.Holdens brother seemed like he was a really nice person, and I think that its possible that his death made Holden the way he is now. We also learn about his feeling for another person from his past- Jane. Jane was his childhood friend. When Stradlater comes home after his date, Holden confronts him about their relationship. Holden attacks Stradlater and ends up pinned down on the bed, with Stradlater trying to make him calm down. It ends up in a fight, and you don't find any more information about Stradlaters date with Jane.
I think that Jane his big influence on how Holden lives his life today. It sounds like Jane was his one true childhood friend that molded him. He is very emotional about her and almost feels like he has to protect her. When he realizes what happened to her with his roommate he could not stand Pency one more day. When this all came to him he pact up his bags and left.
Jane is an important part of his life because she was his only real friend. He may even be flunking because of her. Jane, as a good childhood friend to Holden must have molded him and shaped of who he is today.
I think that the part of chapters 5 and 6 that tell us most about holden is the part about his brother Allie (isn't that a girl's name?).
It is the first thing about his past, other than the little part about Jane. We know that Holden has been kicked out of schools, used to hangout with a girl named sally, and a girl named jane, but thats it. This is the first we have heard of any family.
One of the things that Holden reveals is that he cared about Jane. He cared enough to try to hurt Stradlater for his actions towards her revealing his true feelings for her. This shows while he may act like a jerk most of the time he does care about people and he does believe that actions have consequences. this helps us understand Holden better because it shows that he does have limits and those limits can only be pushed so far. It also shows that he doesn't always put on a straight face and that he can't always hide his emotions. For Holden, courtesy only goes so far.
It also shows that he can be a compassionate person, revealing to us a side of Holden we have not seen before.
In chapter 6 you learn that even though Holden is pretty small and not exceptionally strong, he still won't take crap from anyone and doesn't give up when he believes something is right. You can see this when Stradlater is fighting with him. Even though Stardlater is bigger and telling Holden to stop talking, Holdin keeps talking and takes the punch from Stradlater. Holden didn't mind taking the punch because he was so upset with Stradlater about what he did with Jane. Holden believed that he was unfair with Jane and didn't even know her name so he didnt back down just because Stradlater was telling him to.
"When I really worry about something, I don't just fool around". pg. 52
It says that Holden couldn't even go to the bathroom when he was this worried. He doesn't want to interupt his worrying. It seems to me that Holden was didn't like the idea of Stradlater going out with Jane. It seemed to me that he was a little jelous. Also, that Holden doesn't was Stradlater to break Jane's heart. Holden cares a lot about Jane.
One event that tells us about Holden is when he is beat up by stradlater. It is not the beating itself but what happens afterwards. When bullied or punched there is a fight or flight response.Holden choses to flee. this shows he is against fighting. The fight is self shows that he uses words to hurt someone rather than fists. That also shows that he dislikes phisical fighting.
A person that tells you alot about Holden is Jane Gallanger.She plays alot of checkers with Holden makig it clear he likes checkers and board games like that. The fact that she likes to dance also points to the fact that Holden likes dancing.
In chapter 5 and 6 you get to see a little bit more into Holden and his character, espicially the people he cares about. Holden cares highly for a select few of people, mostly ones that are kind and not phony, people that someone can easily get along with. On page 44 Holden and Stradler get into a fight, Stradler pins him and tells Holden to shut up, after he lets him up Holden again calls Stradler a "sonofabitch moron". To me this quote shows that while Holdan says he's a pacifist, he's a bit of a fighter, or at least he likes to provoke people. He gets very defensive when it comes to something he cares about. Holden is a very complicated character, but by this time we get one thing straight, Holden has a morbid outlook on the world and human race. There are very few things he cares about, and even less people. However, when somthing he cares about is threatened Holden gets on the offensive and is very rigorious in protecting it.
Although Holden was very critical of all his classmates and everyone that he knew he seemed to have a good relationship with his brother Allie, who died of leukemia at a very young age. Holden mention that Allie was a nice child, intelligent, and had bright red hair. He recounts the night of Allies death when he slept in the garage and broke all of the windows with his bare hands. Holden clearly seemed frustrated that he couldn’t save his brother from death because he fractured his hands when he broke the windows. His frustration resurfaces again when he attacks Stradlater when Stradlater refuses to tell Holden to give him details of his date with Jane. He perceives Jane as an innocent child as was his brother, and feels he must protect her from danger because he couldn’t protect his brother. Holden shows symptoms of guilt because he lived while his brother died. Many adolescents retain fillings of guilt when a family member dies.
Holden is told by Stradlater to write a story about anything at all for his composition class. Holden decides to write about his brother Allie. He starts narrating to say that he broke all the windows in the garage while actually sleeping in there. Thishelped me understand that Holden is a very emotional person, but lacks knowledge in any ways of showing it that might be better for him. Later When Stradlater gets back from his date with Jane, Holden, still worried about what he might've done to her, asks what Stradlater did on his date. Stradlater states that he was in his car the whole time. The date, though, was a very long lasting one. Holden had suspected this and soon enough, Stradlater's knees are on top of Holden, Holden gets a bloody nose, and Stradlater is yelling at Holden for smoking.
In Chapter 5 Holden says that "all morons hate it when they call you a moran. Holden seems to have many classifications of groups of people he dislikes. "You take a very handsome guy, or a guy that thinks he's a real hot-shot, and they're always asking you to do them a big favor. He seems to stay away from other groups of people because they live life wrong. When he does penetrate a group's boundarie, it is so he can raise his own self esteem, or raise a false sense of self esteem. The one question that will probably be answered in this book is, what group of people does Holden belong to?
"In all the schools i've gone to, all the athletic bastards stick together." JD/ Holden probably does not have faith in himself, or at least does not trust himself in what he will do in life. He depends on his criticism towards other people, and the ignoring of himself, to actually get him through life. Maybe, because of the fact that he doesn not pay attention to himself has to do with his failing school? He seems to have rules about what he should and should not do, and he breaks these rules with arrogance and selfishness.
What is up with Stradlater?! Doesn't he realize by now that Holden really cares for Jane?! He's left lots of hints! The part of the last two chapters that tells more about Holden is when he, after being beaten up by Stradlater, chooses to lie on the floor while Stradlter walks to the "can". During this time, Holden is trying to piece together what few details his roommate had told him about his date with Jane. Poor Holden, after Stradlater's harsh words, he's beginning to think that he has no chance of getting back together with Jane.
One important piece of information Holden gives us is that his brother Allie died of Leukemia. In chapter 6 Holden says that the night that his brother died he slept in the garage and broke all the windows. He also tried to brake the windows on his car but his hand was to broken. That says to me that Holden is really a sensitive guy. He got extremely upset over his brother dying and he chose to rite about his baseball glove for Stradlaters essay.
This says to me that Holden has a softer side. He was so devastated that his brother died that he slept in the garage and broke all the windows. It is important to our understanding about his character because I thought that Holden was a tough kind of guy. But there were two incidences that show he wasn’t. The other one was when Stradlater beat him up he said he wasn’t tough.
I think that the fact that Holden beats Stradlater up after he makes the assumption that Stradlater and Jane "did stuff" tells a lot about his character. Holden doesn't have much in his life that he can depend on. This means that the few things he can depend on, he holds on to, and protects, maybe even to much. Jane was one of the few things Holden could count on. Although he hasn't seen her in a while, she was one of his only friends. I also think that Holden had a bit of a crush on Jane, so it makes him especially angry that Stradlater is taking her away from him. This also tells us that Holden holds on to the few things he can count on, and protects them very heavily.
One of the most important events of Chapter 5 and 6 is when Holden gets in a fight with Stradlater. This events really helps the readers understanding of Holden because it really showed how much he cares for people he is close to. Holden feels protective over Jane because he does not remember her as a young adult but he remembers her as a young child. When Holden thinks of Jane he thinks of a sweet young innocent girl making Holden believe that she should not associate herself with Stradlater. So when Holden heard that Jane was in a car with Stradlater, Holden got an idea of what might have happened. After learning of this Holden seems to have ended any friendship he might have had and seeked Ackley for a hideout.
In chapter six Holden and Stadlater get into a fight and Holden takes it in an odd way. Instead up puting up a fight or cowering away from the sight of so much blood he thought it was intriging. "I went over to look at my stupid face in the mirror. You never saw so much gore in your life. I had blood all over my pajamas and bathrobe. It partly scared me and it partly fascinated me. All that blood made me look tough. I'd only been in about two fights in my life, and I lost both of them. I'm not too tough. I'm a pacifist, if you want to know the truth"(The Catcher in the Rye, p. 59). This shows how indifferent he really is, if he let his roomate beat him up with out much of a fight.
"I'd only been in two fights in my life, and I lost both of them." (p. 59) This is the quotation that I think tells us what we need to know about Holden. He cares about things very deeply and about doing what's right. But then things go wrong. For example, when he went over to say goodbye to his history teacher and he got lectured. Or this time, when he didn't go down to say hi to Jane and then spent the whole night worrying about her, only to fight with Stradlater. Maybe the other fight he lost was the one to keep his brother alive.
Ally-
An interesting idea. But you have to remember how much Jane means to Holden. Stradlater defiled a lot for Holden, and for him, it was unacceptable.
In chapter 5 and 6 we get to really focuse on Holdens character and break away from the "first impression" section of the book where we're introduced to a bunch of text that doesnt make sense until we read a little longer. In chapter six we get to see how protective Holden in when in comes to the very few people he really cares about, even when he's pinned down he still fights, and when he gets up he fights again only to be pinned again. One thing we see about Holden is that he does respect his siblings, and cares for them. This is intresting because he usually doesnt care for humanity much, but he does care about relatives. Holden is really a fighter however, because he doesnt seem to give up and he is very headstrong. Holden is not very stable when he is upset or emotionaly unstable, and he will use his fists as a last resort.
Jordan
I don't quite understand what you mean by "don't understand the text". Isn't that what an introductary sentence is for?
Demi- I agree with you. I think that Holden still feels for his brother. Maybe the reason Holden acts the way he does, is because he misses him.
I agree with what Nora said about Holden. I believe that Holden wants to hold on to the few things that he has and protect them and Jane was one of them. He didn't want Stradlater to mess Jane up. I also agree with Nora because I think that Holden had a slight crush on her and didn't want his chances to be taken away from him and later on in the story you find out that he thinks about her frequently which makes it easy to believe that he has some feelings for her
dylan, yes he is not physically tough but have you thought about that from the emotional point of view? he avidly smokes, he doesn't break down and cry when he's hurt, and he asks others to drink with him. this, though could just as well be a facade but you should think about that
Colin,if holde really cares about Jane why didnt he do something?
Taylor
I agree with you. Also, Holden had feelings for Jane.
I agree Dylan, Holden does have a softer side and he shows that in chapter six when he talks about his brother. But, you have to think that Holden also has a rebel kind of side. I also think that Holden is sort of tough in a way because he took the beating. And also he is tough because he is taking his stay at Pencey Prep. He always says whatever to things and that shows that he doesn't care and that he has a rebel kind of additude.
I totally agree with Anna. I mean, come on Stradlater, what does Holden, have to do, scream it at him? Although Holden should have held back, why was Stradlater being so secretive? Won't he tell his friend? Get your head in the game, Stradlater......
Well, Quintus, Holden did not do anything about Jane because he could not do anything short of killing Stradlater and telling Jane he missed his date. But he really could not do that, because he does not want to see how Jane has changed. His confrontation was inevitable, but so was Stradlater's date.
If think like Dylan, we saw a new side of Holden in these chapters, he isn't just aggresive and HARD he is soft and sensitive too.
i agree with alexs comment a lot. Holden really cares about jane and he does not want her to get hurt by stradlater. He is probably jelous of stradlater
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